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woensdag 25 januari 2017

Connection Juan Roman Padilla / Antonio Marin Montero





Here the lacquer on the Juan Roman Padilla guitar 
has been removed as it was mistreated and suffered
from humidity problems, especially on the back.


Nice and shiny again. I used Alkyd based lacquer 
which gave me nice results in the past. After examining
the lacquer job I did on it, Stephen Hill asked what kind
of lacquer I was using. In fact a hidden compliment!


On most Juan Roman Padilla guitars there were only two 
horizontal white decoration strips and no further inlay.
I replaced the damaged plastic ones with ivory.


There were two cracks in this bridge just in line with
the vertical left lining of the stringblock. I made
two inserts with wood that was on par with the wood
of the bridge itself. In that way I was able to save 
the bridge.


The back of the Juan Roman Padilla guitar the way 
it came to me in its' unrestored condition.


Carefully removing the lacquer was a must.
Repairing a crack in the back then is possible.


Nice again!


In other guitars of Juan Roman Padilla some stamps can
be found on the label, partly on the surrounding wood.
The spruce center gluing strip is also present here. Again
a spruce center gluing strip for the two halves of the
back can be detected here.


Another Juan Roman Padilla guitar put up for sale!
This one resembles other genuine Juan Roman Padilla
guitars much more: Headshape, bridge, spruce center 
strip on the two halves of the back, other woods...


Visible here are the two horizontal white strips
on the stringblock of this guitar. On top of the
head the "single"  wings can be determined by
clicking on this picture. As Stephen Hill bought
the woods Juan Roman Padilla wasn't in need of
anymore, he was able to tell me he was holding
a special type of superior cedar he used for
his necks. Though Stephen met Roman Padilla
and even studied with Antonio Marin Montero
he wasn't able to tell me who built the guitar.



Another picture from a 1975 Juan Roman Padilla.
The inlay of the sides differs from my 1970 Juan 
Roman Padilla guitar and other AMM guitars!


My 1970 Juan Roman Padilla after the restauration.
Scale 657 mm. Width topnut: 53 mm.


Present here are the wide slots on my guitar the 
way they can be found on most AMM guitars.


This picture is added as things might appear different when
photos are taken from another angle. This is the way "it is".


Quite curious for me was the uneven length at first
of the tuner slots! I've corrected this. The original
topnut here was still present. I've once detected
the same unevenness on an Ignacio Fleta guitar!


The well known Juan Roman Padilla label.
I've compared the written dating and this is
the handwriting of Juan Roman Padilla and
not Antonio Marin Montero's.


Alass. Only this side was still present on the 1970 
Juan Roman Padilla guitar. Some ads are saying
them to be from Fustero. I don't know.... but I've
seen exactly the same on a AMM guitar.


A cedar top and my investigations went further: Did
Antonio Marin Montero used cedar for his soundboards?
Yes he did. I found some early cedar topped guitars 
from him on the internet. Here the rozet before the 
relacquering job.


And afterwards.


The side before the relacquering job.


And afterwards



Here the section of Antonio Marin Montero Guitar pictures starts.




The double decoration strip on this AMM guitar is identical to
that on my1970 Juan Roman Padilla labelled guitar. The strip
is also present on the outer heel covering.


Suspects are here that the bridge has been reglued and it
is questionable wether if it is the original one although
the stringblock on most AMM guitars have these white
lining on all sides.


The more pronounced heel on the AMM guitars of that time
is clearly visible here. The Juan Roman Padilla heels are
less "sharp". Moreover besides the neckwood the heel
consists of more pieces of wood on the Juan Roman 
Padilla guitars and only one piece of wood on the AMM
guitars. The inner heel end on the AMM is quite square
but possibly also on the Juan Roman Padilla guitars(?)


Very clearly the one piece heel can be studied here on an
early AMM guitar. As for the side woods, AMM often
used Brasilian rosewood which could be the case here.


The side inlay on my 1970 JRM guitar is identical.


The top of the stringblock isn't parallel to the soundboard
but a bit slanted. That is also the case on the Juan Roman
Padilla guitar from 1970.


This headform also has the double "winged" headform
on top (as I call it) The two typical smaller wings even
were made smaller in the second half of the seventies.
The slots for the tuners were wider on the AMM guitars
than on the JRP guitars most of the time.


Not a very significant but still striking detail: The fret ends on
the AMM guitars have a steeper angle than on the JRP guitars.


Clearly visible here is the mahogany gluing strip in
the middle of the back as opposed to the spruce one
used in the JRP guitars of that time. Also the quite
square inner heelblock can be seen.


I was really glad to receive this picture as it shows one
side of the tuners that is exactly the same as on my
1970 JRP guitar. Alass, only one side of the tuners was
present on my guitar so I had to replace them. Tuners
mostly were ordered from abroad and many handbuilt 
Spanish guitars are equipped with Fustero tuners.


This guitar still can be found on the site of the Grand
Guitar Salon in Montreal. Luthiers often have their
own stock of different woods and the choice of woods
made by Antonio Marin Montero seems to be more
close to my 1970 Juan Roman Padilla.


Paul B. Jabrayan in charge of this shop generously 
made a lot of pictures from the inside for me. Here you 
are able to study the endblock that has been built out 
of three pieces of wood. AMM didn't want the topgrain 
wood of the endblock glued against top and back. It 
was his believe that it is less strong. Later he placed 
endblocks out of one piece but with the grain parallel
to the grain of the sides. I found that in a 1984 AMM
guitar. From about 1977 the interior dramatically
changed as AMM followed some ideas of the French
luthier Robert Bouchet also for the fan bracing.

I will add some extra's here without pictures:

Answer from John Ray: Granada based luthier.

Juan Román Padilla died a few years ago. In speaking to him I did learn that Antonio Marin 

Montero and Manuel Bellido made some instruments for him but not, I think in 1970. I have 

just spoken to Aarón García who is more knowledgeable than myself about historical guitar-

makers and we agree that although sometimes Padilla made rough looking guitars he was 

capable of much better work. It is very hard to judge the truth. From my experience with 

guitars of that period I think that when one maker asks for another to make guitars for him 

the exterior and the aesthetics are very important but it would be unusual for the buyer to 

dictate how the guitar should be constructed. After all, if one maker asks another to make 

an instrument he is looking for the skill of that maker or the sound. 


A remark about the reinforcements of the sides: I only see one full side brace each side 

just about one inch below the transverse brace, few partial braces above the transverse brace 

in my Antonio Marin Montero. (Paul B. Jabrayan) That is also the case in the 1970 

Juan Roman Padilla guitar.


Neck / Head joint Construction: Identical on both guitars: The headwood ends a bit

                  further up the neck. (We made a comparison between their AMM (Grand Salon Montreal) 

                                                             some other early AMM and my JRP.)


Reinforcement Soundhole: goes with the circle of the soundhole itself.

          Furthermore straight executed. (That is exactly the same in my 1970 JRP.) 

                                                                Guitar is lightly built as is the JRP.



Sound: Renaud Cote-Giguere playing on a Antonio Marin Montero 

from 1971. Can be found on youtube. No reverb added and

indeed a lot like the 'Juan Roman Padilla”. The remarks from

Mr. Renaud Cote-Giguere were: I enjoyed playing on that guitar, 

very colourful, and a quick response ! It seemed a very traditional 

instrument, and I enjoy these kinds of guitars! Sounds like something 

Julian Bream would play on. 

My idea regarding the sound is that it indeed sounds more traditional

but with a rather fast decay and not that much sustain. As the higher

notes are sounding a bit punchy the guitar gives an idea of flamenco

influences. Balance is good and the guitar certainly is suited for some

Spanish music but not all sorts of music. Compared to a 1984 AMM

it is an entirely different guitar. The 1984 is much heavier, very well

built with a good balance, sustain, lots of overtones but strangely

enough it seperates nicely and is suited for all kinds of music.



Scale: The scales differ from 650, 655 until 665 mm on

both the AMM as the JRP guitars, probably under influence 

of the Madrid (Jose Ramirez) school.


Dimensions: The dimensions measured on the bodies of the

different guitars from AMM and my JRP labelled guitar are

very close to each other.




Another event closely related to the formation of this association is a an exhibition organized by the same group of makers. This was in 1989 and it helped to consolidate this important group. In addition to those mentioned above, the catalogue from this exhibition includes Juan Román Padilla (1928- 2018) who in an interview in 2012 assured me that he had ordered guitars for his label from the dúo Antonio Marín and Manuel Bellido. (John Guitars)

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