Telesforo Julve "Intermediate model" 1945 / 1958 ( Problems with a Topnut ) Vicente Tatay Tomás guitars B-108 EN

 

A Telesforo Julve that had an intensive restoration process.

As the sound was very promising already, I figured it should

be worth it. All parts have been French polished after a good

cleaning job. However, as the original lacquer had disappeared 

at certain spots it became very difficult to have an even 

coloured top after the polishing process. I make my own so 

called "wood brightener" and as it is also called oxalic acid 

solution I made it with oxalic acid and water. Then you are 

able to determine the mix with water yourself. It was needed 

several times.

The final result after this intensive restoration process is

a well playable and really surprising sounding instrument.

Scale 646 mm. Width of topnut 51 mm. Action on the

twelfth fret: 3 mm string 1 and 4 mm string 6.

The price now is 500 Euro's.

Much better now and after all it is not a new guitar

and thus doesn't have to be like that.

Walnut really can be a beautiful wood in itself. 

Anyway I like the back and the way it is figured.

And the French polish technique adds a lot to

the beauty of the final result.

Refretting is a must as the filed copper frets weren't in

a good condition anymore and moreover doesn't give

a great convience of playing. A new topnut made out

of bone, more carefully spaced enhances playability

as well. The thinning of the neck did the rest!

And most of the time the heads and sleeves for the rollers

haven't been done very symmetrically. As a new refinish

job is necessary, why not make corrections on those

as well and of course a cleaning job for the tuners.

This was were this guitar shines: No cracks anywhere,

a straight neck, good sound and beautiful figured walnut

sides and back. A small spot due to the expansion of a

transverse bar has been cured from the inside by placing

a glue block on that particular spot.

This label picture has been taken through the sound 

hole. A better picture you can find here beyond where 

I'm talking about the restoration process

For those who are interested in the restoration process:

The back had to be lifted off as some glue work wasn't 

proper anymore. A check on all the details inside can 

be done then as well.

Fairly easy to remove the back but you have to be prudent

when it comes to removing the back from the inner heel

tongue. Somewhat a little help from the inside of the sound

box is needed but all in all successful!

I've included another picture of the label as here the label

can be presented complete. The telephone number on the

right (under the address) is pointing towards a guitar

made between 1945 and 1957 as is the address.

A good shot at the lower bout that makes clear the sound

board has been built up out of three parts. This has been done 

quite often and lets' remember: Even Antonio de Torres made 

some of his guitars with a soundboard out of 3 pieces. On the 

lower right you can see through as a piece of the edge inlay is

missing. No bracing in this guitar but I figured it to be a good

experiment to give this guitar a 3 piece fan bracing in the style 

of Telesforo Julve. The reason for that is that you have to 

remove the old lacquer and also a bit of the wood from the 

soundboard to remove excessive trays of rude playing. A 

thinner soundboard asks for a light bracing.

The heel that is partly made out of the softer spruce.

The individual glue blocks are placed quite wide from

each other. It is known that higher end guitars have 

them more close to each other. 

So I've decided to place extra glue blocks in between. 

I've coloured them later but in fact not necessary. The

existing glue blocks have all been checked and reglued 

when necessary, together with the transverse bars.

Here the new fan bracing is visible. Of course the

additional advantage is that the part of the soundboard 

under strength and tension of the strings better with-

stands those forces. The extra glue blocks will enhance

the contact of the top with the rest of the guitar.

With the back off it became clear that the glue work on

the braces wasn't great anymore. I removed the braces and 

cleaned the surfaces of course before regluing. As I wanted

to replace the back in the Spanish way these braces are glued 

to the sides first but at the proper hight so the back makes 

contact along the entire braces.

Of course it could also be a method to glue the

transverse bars to the back first but here I only 

placed them in order to make a picture of it.

Here the body is ready to receive its' back again. It is

necessary to reglue them to the dimensions of the back.

Therefore careful measuring is a must during this process.

The two halves of which a back exists, were held

together with cleats though these newly placed

strips work a lot better. The better guitars all have

this kind of "protection' to prevent unwanted

splits. The grain of the wood of these strips 

should be on 90 degrees with the back pieces.

I've coloured the fingerboard the way it has to be.

(The cheaper models have a black painted fingerboard)

The copper frets that are originally mounted in these 

guitars are always filed but never rounded afterwards 

which makes these guitars a bit uncomfortable to play.

It was customary in Valencia in those days.

Moreover, this neck was way too thick so I remodelled 

the neck as well as I was planning to French polish

the whole guitar. And necks aren't that difficult to do.

As this guitar obviously wasn't a concert guitar and relatively 

cheap, the owner(s) weren't that careful with it as I often see.

So a new back plate on the head covers the marks incurred

during its' lifetime up till now.

A good cleaning of the tuners was another must and the 

axes being made with metal rollers makes this guitar

also produced from before the early sixties. Wether if

the lack of the two inlays on the bridge tie block is

pointing towards an immediately after second world 

war model I do not dare to say but it certainly could

be the case as there was a shortage of about everything 

after  the civil war followed by the second world

war (That is well known in Spain.)

People may wonder wether if it has been worth all that

trouble but these guitars find themselves in a growing

popularity and for a reason. They simple sound good.

Let's look at the price list of what has been done:

New fretwork: At least 200 Euro's Cleaning.the

tuners: 30 Euro's. Regluing bars and glue blocks while

lifting the back: over 200 Euro's and finally French 

polishing the whole guitar: More than 200 Euro's.

Therefore the final price of 500 Euro's is more

than reasonable. I haven't even mentioned the 

reshaping of the head and thickness of the neck!

Problems with a topnut: 

I recently came across a malfunctioning topnut though it was

not made out of plastic. I made another one out of bone but

probably one of the slots for the B string wasn't enough

"decending" towards the tuners. Thus the contact of the string

on the topnut was on the wrong point: Not near the finger-

board but on the other side. That made the open B string too

low but once properly tuned it is logical then that the fretted 

notes are too sharp. And you know, when you have to find out

where the problem lies you're experimenting at first a lot

while the solution is fairly simple. The string kept on sounding

bad, a bit muffled and not in a clear way anyway, As the other

strings sounded good it puzzled me again. Mounting another 

B string, still the same result. Now you have to be aware that 

bone is a natural material, hard enough to serve as a topnut

but it is always possible that certain parts are softer and have

less density. Normally you do not expect that but another top-

nut proved that. A crystal clear sound again out of the B- string.

Before you're searching for intonation problems, the bridge

bone at first comes to mind: Is there enough compensation?

And where is the contact area as when it is too wide the 

string will not give its' best sound. It can even give a kind 

of sitar like tone when the contact area is near the bottom

of the guitar though I sometimes provide my guitars with 

such a bridge bone in order to have enough compensation 

and as a result a perfect octave pitch. 

Formerly the  "Zero" fret was a good solution though you 

hardly will encounter them anymore. But it would have 

solved any of the problems described here above but in

the tradition of the classical guitar it is not the way to go.

Vicente Tatay Tomás (Intermediate model)

Presente here is a pre 1973 (according to the label) model

B-108. At a certain period Vicente Tatay Tomas provided 

his guitars with a small sticker on the back of the head.

Why would this be an intermediate model? There are some

details that are pointing towards that as e.g. the extended 

fingerboard, the polished frets instead of the roughly filed

frets on the entry level guitars. Furthermore a bigger scale

(655 mm as opposed to the 645 mm the entry level guitars

are constructed with.) A larger body and a 5 fan braced

soundboard completes this guitar. Price 250 Euro's

The head, as so often with those "cheaper" guitars a bit roughly

treated by placing the guitar against a wall. Also a reason to

make corrections on the head and reglue loose parts. The top-

nut already has been replaced but needs a final adjustment.

A nice rosette and a narrow grained top on this one. The 

extended fingerboard for demanding pieces can be studied 

here. The polished frets that gives a smoother playing result

have been extra treated in the whole process.

Maybe not that visible but this guitar is occupied with a

 "see through" scratchplate. Could it be ment as a flamenco

guitar? Question is also the wood of the bridge. It has 

been finished in a way you would expect genuine ebony.

A new bridgebone was a must. Adjusted to reach a

nice octave pitch. Exact dimensions are: Length: 493 mm 

Upper bout: 380 mm Waiste: 235 mm Lower bout: 375 mm. 

The depth varies from 98 mm to 100 mm. 

The small damage ob the right of the upper wing has

 been sufficiently treated. Most likely just some surface

damage and not a crack. Even when it would be a 

crack it is cannot go that much further and moreover

it is in an area where the tone of a guitar isn't made.

Yet I always treat these damages as if they were

cracks, so trying to press in some glue for stability.

A compensated bridge already as opposed to the entry level

guitars from Valencia in those earlier times. They often placed 

the whole bridge under an angle as also was customary at the 

beginning of the past age.

The larger body on this model results in a good and rich

bass response though the higher notes are present as well

and not at all thin sounding. I treated the whole guitar

with NIKCO, a polishing compound. The dirt that came

off was astonishing. Maybe the smoke environment of

those former days could be the reason.

To ensure a good angle over the bridgebone for now and

in the near future, a 12 hole bridge has been installed.

This is the pre 1973 label (according to Ton Bogaard) with

the guitar neck pointing to the right. On the later labels the 

guitarneck is pointing to the left. The extra addition Vitato

might raise some questions. Wether if it is a sign of more 

quality I do not know. Anyway, it stands for Vi(cente)

Ta(tay) To(mas) from Valencia of course.

The back still is in a great condition with no cracks and that 

counts for the soundboard as well. At first the choice of wood

for sides and back puzzled me a bit: Is it walnut? At least

the sides are obviously but on both sides and back the inner 

layer has been made out of mahogany, not customary in

earlier times. 

The tuners, most likely from RAED are quite mediocre.

On request I can deliver much better tuners that will do 

more justice to the quality of this guitar.

These tuners are a good replacement. They are older Tatay 

Tomas Tuners from probably end of the fifties / early sixties.

From a guitar that wasn't original anymore and that one

received higher end tuners. But the axe holders on these 

tuners are clinched to the plate and can be regarded as 

an upgrade. Often guitar builders held on to the same

model numbering system but economized on the mate-

rials used, sometimes wood, sometimes tuners.

Maybe kept in the closet for years? There are hardly any

traces on the frets that would betray a lot of playing. And

bides a better bridgebone, also a bone topnut with a 

better spacing.

Vicente Tatay Tomas B-108

 

This guitar suffered a lot from moisture problems, most

likely stored in a wrong way. It was a challenge to bring 

it back to a playable condition and do some experiments 

with it at the same time. A wonderful sound is coming

out of this one in the end. Possibly due to thinning the 

soundboard at the edges and glueing braces on the sides?

Pictures from "Before and After".

 

I've managed to remove the ugly spots on sides and back

but did't succeed entirely on the soundboard itself. This

guitar has its' history and I left it the way it was on that

particular spot.

And even worse on the inside!

On these spots only oxalic water treatment will work 

but most of the time better on the denser wood species.

"Ready for the garbage bin?" someone told me...

Same spot: A lot better! also the lining on the left

has been restored and an ebony inlay in the bottom.

These places have been cured sufficiently! Here 

everything came loose but wasn't cracked.

The label in this guitar: also from before 1973.

And not only on the sides. I'm glad I gave it a try.

I'm playing this one daily in spite of having concert 

guitars that are valued several thousands of Euro's.

The moisture damage seems to be better cured on the 

hardwood parts. The soundboard damage remains visible.

Another lesson for the near future!

Juan Orozco Model 10 (1978)

  

Presented here is my Juan Orozco model 10 guitar.

The series 8, 10 and 15 have been developed in a

collaboration with Masaru Kohno and Sakurai.

These instruments were produced in the Tama 

workshops. Even Tama had the same models on the 

market. For a more complete summary about the

history, just check one of my other Blogs: "Juan 

Orozco, dealer or luthier". Price: € 900,-

The label with the year of production and beyond that

on the left: 10 - U - 22  the first digits being the model

number. Juan Orozco was a New York based dealer

and luthier. Wild stories are spred that a lot of these

guitars were exported without any label and that im-

porters could stick a label inside it to their liking.

I doubt that! In a personal letter to me, Juan Orozco

confirmed this collaboration though the Kohno

company kept on denying it!

These guitars can be recognized by their double ebony

strip placed in the back of the neck. A Fleta designed

headstock which has been replaced around 1980 and

the slanted short sides of the bridge. As also was 

common in the Kohno guitars, the inner part of the

soundbox often was slighty sprayed (or laquered).

And of course these guitars were sprayed with the

so called "cashew nut varnish".

The Fleta head that can be found on the earlier Orozco 

guitars. The original tuners should have carved roses.

When Masaru Kohno won several prizes for his guitar

building and developing work, Ignacio Fleta was in

the jury, stating that the Kohno instruments sound-

wise came close to his own guitars .

And presented here is the later headstock.

The lattice bracing used in these guitars can also be found in

the Kohno, Sakurai and Tama guitars of that period. Kohno

used three different bracing. The middle one was copied in the

Tama produced factory guitars though in fact not comparable 

to the Greg Smallman lattice bracing. 

A nice rosette completes these guitars that were built

very neatly and posses a sturdy, powerful Kohno-like

sound. But remember, not all models were equal in

quality. I was able to buy a model 8, 10 and 15. The

model 10, though a little less in appearance was by far 

the best sounding guitar at that time. I still have it but

it may go now as I'm thinning my collection.

Here a better picture from the bracing found in the 

Kohno, Sakurai ans Juan Orozco guitars for the world

market. Masaru Kohno was widely copied in the 70's.

As opposed to most Masaru Kohno guitars, the Orozco

labelled guitars were equipped with a 650 mm scale.

Manuel Contreras (1983) Concert gitaar

1983 MANUEL CONTRERAS CONCERT CLASSIC GUITAR.
Hoewel niet gesigneerd is deze gitaar uit de beste materialen 
vervaardigd waarbij natuurlijk direct de Braziliaans palissander
zij- en achterkant opvalt. Ceder bovenblad en ondanks
de 660 mm opvallend gemakkelijk te bespelen. Prijs: 2500,-

De typische rozet uit de tachtiger jaren en uiteraard wel
wat gebruikerssporen. Hij is van een flamenco gitarist 

geweest en als je goed kijkt zie je nog sporen van een 

slagplaat die er toch maar afgehaald is omdat dat de

trillingen in het bovenblad nu bepaald niet bevordert.

          

                                        De originele koffer die er natuurlijk bij geleverd wordt.

De Jose Ramirez gitaren werden destijds in dezelfde koffers geleverd.

Fretwerk in prima staat, gevlakt en gepolijst voor zover dat nodig was.

De beroemde Fustero mechanieken die eigenlijk gewoon 

op een gitaar uit deze prijsklasse horen

Let op: Alleen deze kop behoort op een concert gitaar. De 

"Guitarreria" gelabelde gitaren hebben een andere kopvorm

en worden doorgaans van andere bouwers en/of fabrieken

betrokken. Overigens doen er nogal wat verhalen de ronde

dat Manuel Contreras Sr. zelf al niet veel meer bouwde en

dat werk overliet aan overigens prima getrainde bouwers.

Ook de achterkant ziet er nog ongeschonden uit.

Niet gesigneerd en wellicht heeft dit te maken met de 

toets die weliswaar uit ebben gemaakt is maar wat vlek-

kerig is. Deze labels maken in feite al een onderscheid 

in kwaliteitsklasse. De studiegitaren hebben een zoge-

naamd "Guitarreria" label en de concertgitaren hebben

een "Luthier" label.

Mooi zijaanzicht om de schoonheid van dit Braziliaans

palissander te laten zien. Zij en achterkant in zeer goede staat!

Wel wat playwear van de vorige eigenaar: een Flamenco 

gitarist. Hij voorkwam meer schade door er een dikke 

plastic slagplaat op te plakken maar die is er af gehaald 

omdat dat eigenlijk de toon van een gitaar om zeep helpt, 

zeker als de slagplaat te dik van uitvoering is zoals dat

hier het geval was!

Mooi recht bovenblad en dat na al die jaren. Daarnaast is

de speelactie zeer prettig met voldoende kambeenhoogte.

In prima conditie, dit achterblad!

Wellicht voor een toekomstig eigenaar om het bovenblad

toch maar een keer te laten refinishen. Ik zou dan zeker

opteren voor het aanbrengen van French polish in de 

volksmond politoeren genoemd.

Andres Martin de Diego - Concert guitar 1960 (Signed / Dated). EN

 

You will not meet them frequently but Andres Martin made 

a lot of stringed instruments in his life. He has therefore been

mentioned in the Jose Romanillos dictionary as someone who 

learned his craft with Julio Bustamante and Marcelo Barbero. 

He was influenced by Santos Hernandez and Domingo 

Simplicio. He taught his brother in law, Javier Rojo Solar. 

His workshops were at the Rollo 3 and at Calle Divino Pastor 

22 in Madrid. He died in 1977. Scale of this guitar is 660 mm. 

Width of the topnut is 53 mm.  Price: € 900,- case incl.

It must have been a lot of work to create a rosette like this...

And the same thing counts for the edge purflings.

              

                The scratch plate could point towards a flamenco model as

             does the cypres sides and back but classical Spanish music suits

              this guitar as well. Profound basses and a bit of the old school

              "wooden"  tone. A good example of this sound can be found on

                YouTube where Nikos Tsiachris plays a 1975 classical guitar

                    from his hand. The guitars' own frequency lies on a G#, 

                  about 104 Herz.

               

Here the signed label can be admired, stating that he already

was working at the Divina Pastor 22 location in Madrid.

To our believe the year written at the lower right on this

label mentioning the year 1960. Apart from that in the

inside of this guitar a stamp can be found on the upper

bout on the left side. Near the sound hole on the right

the guitar has been signed (by 2 persons?) and dated

1960 even being numbered 275 and no doubt within 

the handbuilt range we can confirm.

            

His graceful and immediately recognizable head, but also

showed here is the condition of the lower frets. Most of the

time an indication in what sort of condition the rest of the

fretwork is. He also used the typical Fustero tuners from 

that time. Fretwork has been levelled and polished.

                                              

Probably I will French polish the neck as it doesn't feel

that comfortable at the moment. Or leave it the way it is?

No, on the right it looks (and feels) much better. 

Nice inlay work all around this instrument proving that

it is far from an entry level guitar. But that has already

been confirmed by the rosette itself.

And the Fustero tuners with the typical knob form

from the early sixties. The D tuner probably had a knock 

as it is slightly bowed. I left it that way as it still works

to full satisfaction.

The Cypress back with only one small crack that already 

has been stabilized. Take a look at the lower right. Do not 

expect such imperfections to have a lot of influence 

on the sound.

And the front ands back of the head, reasonably free from 

damages. A new topnut was necessary. On later models

the small center point that sticks out, has disappeared.

That was prone to damages of course and as for me, I

would have that disappear as well but I know, not original

anymore. Moreover, Martin did this later in time so it is

confirmation for this guitar coming out of a certain period.

This picture has been added as I used the string 

savers to get an even better angle over the bridge-

bone but they were in fact not necessary. A crack

running from the left wing of the bridge has been

repaired and is stable now. No need to worry about

that as it still was closing. No tensions there!

Another example of Andres Martins' work can

be found on YouTube: a 1975 model. I must say:

its' sound wasn't that remarkable as it sounded

too modest to my ears. However, when placing

a new set of high end strings hat promised more

volume and high frequencies it gives a beautiful

balanced sound though still "old school".

Mass Hirade / Takamine "Master Arte" gitaar: Model 15

Een higher end model dat je niet zo vaak tegenkomt van

deze bouwer / fabrikant. Dat Hirade deze gitaren persoon-

lijk bouwde zal waarschijnlijk niet het geval zijn. Wel

signeerde hij vaak de labels van deze Concert Arte

series. Deze gitaar is gebouwd in 1984, de topjaren voor 

wat betreft Japanse producten: Betaalbaar en kwaliteit.

Verkocht.

De gitaar is opgebouwd uit massieve materialen wat van

een topgitaar verwacht mag worden. De later toegepaste

ebben verstevigingsstrip in de hals ontbreekt hier nog.

De hele gitaar laat zorgvuldigheid zien qua bouwken-

merken. En alhoewel Mass Hirade bij Kohno geleerd 

heeft, is diens bovenblad ondersteuning niet gekopieerd.

Een traditionele waaierbracing (7 stuks) is hier toe-

gepast. Indiaas palissander en een scale van 650 mm.

De "eigen frequentie" van de klankkast ligt op A.

In Herz kun je dus zeggen rond de 110 Hz.

Een zorgvuldig gesneden topkam met een breedte van

52 mm. Prima mechanieken die zeer gelijkmatig werken.

Je zou er Fustero's alleen al voor vervangen op je Spaanse

concertgitaar! Verantwoordelijk voor de werking zal

zeker ook de overbrenging zijn: 1 op 18.

Dat daarbij ook de knoppen demontabel zijn, vind ik 

een absolute plus. De ashouders zijn ook niet "uit de

plaat gebogen" zoals dat bij goedkopere mechanieken

doorgaans het geval is.

Verwarring kan ontstaan omdat Takamine later de H15

als model heeft uitgebracht. Kwalitatief gewoon een

mindere gitaar dan deze Hirade. Vreemd is natuurlijk

dat ze het woordje "fifteen" verkeerd geschreven

hebben. Opmerkelijk is verder dat deze duurdere

Hirade niet gesigneerd is terwijl dat met sommige

"lower end models" uit deze reeks wel het geval is.

Voor wat betreft de Takamine serie nummers: Deze

zijn terug te vinden op het hielblok in de gitaar en

de codering is in feite niet erg ingewikkeld: De eerste

twee cijfers (84 hier) geven het bouwjaar aan. Dan

zijn de volgende twee cijfers verantwoordelijk voor 

de maand van fabricage. De 4 cijfers daaropvolgend

geven het zoveelste exemplaar aan in die maand 

gemaakt. Deze manier van dateren heeft Takamine

gevolgd tussen 1962 en 2012 met uitzondering

van de G-series van dit bedrijf,

Het leek wel mode te zijn in Japan om het achterblad van 

een dunne vernislaag te voorzien in de klankkast. We treffen 

dit ook aan bij de Masaru Kohno, Sakurai, Juan Orozco en 

de Tama modellen uit die tijd. Een duidelijke reden daarvoor 

heb ik nooit kunnen vinden. Helderder klankresultaat?

De randinleg lijkt gekopieerd te zijn van de high end 

Kohno gitaren maar gezien de verschillende gitaren die 

af en toe aangetroffen worden zou een derde partij hier 

wel eens verantwoordelijk voor kunnen zijn geweest.

Ook het brugblok is van versiering voorzien, wellicht toch

meer een keuze van de mensen in Azie. Een andere smaak

en soms een beetje "over the top". Model 20 heeft deze

randinleg ook maar is voorzien van Braziliaans palissander

voor de zij en achterkant van de klankkast.

Nog beter te zien is de randinleg op deze foto en je kunt

hem zelfs beter bestuderen door op de foto te klikken.

Opmerkelijk bij dit instrument is de bespeelbaarheid nog

even los van het mooie geluid. Die is erg nauwkeurig

afgesteld. Het geluid is niet vergelijkbaar met de Kohno,

Sakurai en Orozco gitaren die voor de wereldmarkt ge-

produceert zijn. Het geluid is wat sprankelender en

heeft niet dat robuuste wat de eerste 3 hebben.

De andere kant is dat de levendigheid in de toon

een sterk punt is van deze gitaren. Toch lijkt de onder-

steuning van het laag vanuit de laagste frequenties

te komen, een soort van "voelbaar" laag.